J.T. McDaniel Official Website
An Interview with J.T. McDaniel
It turned out to be quite easy to get an interview with author J.T. McDaniel, whose novel, With Honour in Battle, was just published by Writer's Club Press. (This interview was conducted in 2001. The novel was re-published by Riverdale Electronic Books in 2003.) We met with him in the Spartanly furnished living room of his apartment in a southern Atlanta suburb, where we found it very easy to feel at ease. While speaking to us, McDaniel relaxed in a big recliner, occasionally sipping from a bottle of water. Plain tap water, it turned out, despite the label on the bottle.
INTERVIEWER: So it's not really bottled water?
JTM: No. I buy a couple of bottles once in a while, but mostly I just refill them. The only reason I ever buy bottled water is if I need a new bottle.
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INTERVIEWER: Well, we're not here to talk about water, obviously.
JTM: Not if we can talk about my book, no. The bottled water people aren't going to pay me for plugging their stuff anyway.
INTERVIEWER: Particularly since you're only using their bottle and not drinking their water.
JTM: Particularly in that case. So shall we talk about the book instead?
INTERVIEWER: Good idea. What inspired you to write With Honour in Battle? You never served on a submarine, did you?
JTM: I've been aboard exactly three submarines in my entire life, all on tours. The Gar in Cleveland, back when I was in grade school, and the Cod, also in Cleveland, much more recently. Both of those were old Fleet boats. The Gar was used as a Navy Reserve training vessel, but they'd removed the screws so it couldn't actually leave the pier. The story was that no armed vessels were allowed on the Great Lakes due to a treaty with Canada, and you could get around it by removing the screws. That turns out to be wrong, though. The real reason was that removing the bronze screws was the most practical way of avoiding electrolytic damage to the steel hull. (At least in a boat that isn't going to need to move under it's own power.) The Cod replaced Gar in 1959, but was retired a few years later, since the Navy's sub force had gone fully nuclear, and there was no need for Diesel training boats. She's a museum boat now, tied up along North Marginal Road, next to Burke Lakefront Airport. I understand she has the distinction of being the only boat of her type that could conceivably still dive, since all the others have had access stairs added that would make it impossible to seal the pressure hull. I also went through U-505, the boat Admiral Gallery's group captured when he was captain of the Guadalcanal in 1944. That one is on dry land, at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. I think I was probably about 11 when we went through it.
INTERVIEWER: But you were in the Army yourself, right?
JTM: Right. I enlisted in '67, went through the Defense Information School at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis, then did a tour in Viet Nam.
INTERVIEWER: Defense Information School doesn't exactly sound like combat training.
JTM: It wasn't. DINFOS is a Defense Department school, which means you get students and instructors from all the services. If I remember right, my roommates were another soldier, a Navy petty officer, and a Marine. DOD took ten weeks to drill what amounted to nearly the full course load for a BA in journalism into you. Right after that it was off to Viet Nam.
INTERVIEWER: So, if you weren't in combat, what did you do there?
JTM: I didn't say I wasn't in combat -- it just wasn't my primary job. Mainly, I was the guy who wrote the press releases after action. I also edited a unit newspaper, which was how I learned that some officers were never issued a sense of humor. I spent a fair amount of time getting shot at, too. It was supposed to make the stories more accurate, I believe, but mostly I was young and stupid, and there's something very alluring about combat to young men. Particularly if you manage to survive it.
INTERVIEWER: So where did you serve?
JTM: Mainly at Camp Eagle, which was at Phu Bai, a few miles from Hue. I was originally assigned to the 308th Combat Aviation Battalion, which was attached to the 101st Airborne Division. A few months later the 308th was taken into the 101st when they went Airmobile, and turned into the 159th Assault Support Helicopter Battalion. We kept the Chinooks and other heavy lift choppers, and the Huey units went to 101st Aviation. (I think.) I finished out the tour at 101st Airborne Division (Rear) at Bien Hoa Army Base outside Saigon. Der Schwartze Adler, the restaurant U-2317's cook had worked in before the War in With Honour in Battle, is a tribute to the 308th, which was nicknamed "Black Adler." (Black Eagle)
INTERVIEWER: Okay, you've managed to work your way back to your book. What's the main premise?
JTM: It's a war story, obviously. We take an officer who's just returned from a particularly dangerous patrol, and immediately throw him into command of a brand-new, experimental submarine. The sub is so advanced that the danger from the enemy is almost negated, but the propulsion system has about a 50% chance of blowing everyone up, so it evens out.
INTERVIEWER: But why did you chose to make it a German submarine, and not, say, an American one?
JTM: A lot of it was the technology. At the end of the war, the Germans had some submarines ready to deploy that were years ahead of anything we had. It was hard to resist the temptation to use one of these, especially when you couple that with the fact that by late 1944 it had to be obvious to everyone in the Kriegsmarine that Germany was going to lose, and probably very soon. And there was also the fact that, with the 75% loss rate for U-boats, you have an increased risk and, in consequence, greater tension. We lost 26% of our submariners in the Pacific, but compared to the German losses that was light.
INTERVIEWER: Light? Twenty-six percent?
JTM: Compared to German losses, yes. Compared to the rest of the U.S. Navy, of course, those were massive casualty figures.
INTERVIEWER: But the sub in your book is real?
JTM: Theoretically, I suppose. U-2317 is a Typ XXVIw Walter U-boat, which means it was a boat that was designed, but never actually built. There were a few real Walter boats constructed, but none of them ever deployed, and none were of the type I decided to use. Construction was started on four of these, but none were completed and they were broken up on the building ways at the end of the war.
INTERVIEWER: Why pick that one, then, as opposed to one that was actually built?
JTM: It gives you greater flexibility, for one thing. If you say that the boat could dive to such and such a depth, and there was a real boat that had been tested, you'd better be sure you got the depth right. If the boat existed only on the drawing board, though, you can just use what the designers were hoping the figures would be. For instance, Typ XXI boats were supposed to be able to dive to 1,000 feet, but it turned out that the hatch seals started to leak at a shallower depth, so the design depth wasn't practical. They could still dive deeper than any Allied submarine, though. For that matter, so could most German subs.
I'll also admit to taking a few liberties here and there. For dramatic purposes, U-2317 has several more officers than would have been in a real Typ XXVIw. The most obvious liberty, though, was an unintentional one. This book was written in the mid-1970s, and just about the only information source on these boats was, looking back, not really as good as it should have been. The source indicated the correct displacement, number of torpedo tubes, and lack of any deck guns or anti-aircraft armament. Where they blew it was in their description of the powerplant and propulsion system, and which direction the midships torpedo tubes pointed. (They said forward; the actual design called for them to fire aft.) They also indicated two diesels, turbines, e-motors, and screws. The correct number turns out to be one of each. And, lacking a cutaway hull plan, I gave the boat a conning tower attack centre, which was normal in most submarines of the period. As it turns out, the attack centre was in the control room, and the tower was much lower than usual, with only an escape trunk between the control room and the bridge. I don't believe these technical details really affect the story, mind you—the boat is the setting for the story, not the central character, as in some techno-thrillers. You'll still find these in the trade paperback, but they were fixed in the e-book edition, and I've been considering a new paperback, which would also elminate the technical errors. (It did.)
INTERVIEWER: What about the ships mentioned in the book? Are any of those real?
JTM: There were genuine counterparts to several, of course. The real U-2317 was a Type VIIc that was cancelled before being commissioned. There was also a real U-702. But while the U-702 in my book had a fairly distinguished career, the real boat is believed to have hit a mine in the North Sea on its first patrol and was lost with all hands in March, 1942. The real HMS Curacoa was lost in an accident off the Irish coast in 1942, while serving as an escort for the Queen Mary. The cruiser turned in front of the Queen and the liner cut her in half. Several other vessels mentioned had genuine counterparts, but the histories of the real ships are obviously different, and if any of the crew members mentioned in With Honour in Battle were on the real ships it's purely coincidental.
INTERVIEWER: No real people in the book, then?
JTM: Some, sure. Hitler was real. So were some of the off-stage characters who figure into the background events, such as Dönitz and Godt. I did change Walsh's first name from John to Geoffery after John Walsh, who was unknown at the time I started writing the book, began doing that TV show. Also, one character has been grafted into my father's maternal grandmother's family, so if one of those relatives happens to recognize a minor story point, that's why. And the petty officer torpedo gunner, Schwartzkopf, is not named after the American general, who was still an obscure field grade officer at the time the story was originally written. If I was thinking of anyone when I came up with the name, it was probably the opera singer.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have a favorite character in the book?
JTM: Kruger, the captain, looks a lot like me, so probably him.
INTERVIEWER: Any reason for that? Looking like you, I mean?
JTM: When I wrote the book, I was planning to try to convince any potential film producers that they should cast me in the part when they made the movie. Mind you, this was originally written about 20 years ago, when it wouldn't have been much of a stretch for me to play a 27-year-old man. These days, I suppose I'd have to settle for being one of the party guests. Or switch sides and play one of the British characters, who are a bit older. I'm available, anyway. So is the book, since no one has optioned it yet.
INTERVIEWER:Other than yourself, do you have any thoughts on who should play any of the characters if they make a movie?
JTM: I do, though some of them may tend to be a bit unconventional. For some unfathomable reason I keep picturing Alan Ruck as Kruger. Minus the glasses, and with a different haircut, of course. I'm not even sure why, since the closest thing to a serious role I've ever seen him in was a ten-minute stint as the captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise in "Star Trek: Generations," and he came across as somewhat less than 100% efficient in that. I suppose he just has the right "look" for the part, and I've yet to see a good comic actor who couldn't do drama very effectively.
INTERVIEWER:Anyone else?
JTM: If he was younger, and dropped the American accent, I think John Mahoney would be good as Ralston. Unfortunately, the book makes it very clear that Ralston would be about 33. Craig Ferguson might well be able to pull off the part—I sort of picture Ralston as the sort who would tend to come off as vaguely upper class English, and revert to something a bit less refined when he gets upset. But, as I said, my casting ideas are probably not in line with what an actual producer would suggest. They'd no doubt go for box office record as the primary criteria.
INTERVIEWER: Any other favorites in the book?
JTM: Strangely enough, Ostler. He's a complete jerk, besides being the only dedicated Nazi aboard the boat. He's a fairly minor character, mind you. Also one with some pretty deep secrets, which I'm not going to reveal here. He turns out to be pretty interesting before he's done, though.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any problems with making Nazis the heroes in this book?
JTM: I'd have a major problem if I'd done that. But I didn't. Except for Ostler, the others are simply professional Naval Officers. The German Navy was the least political of all the services. Most World War II military equipment had swastikas painted all over it, but Naval vessels generally displayed that only on the ensign, where it had replaced the Imperial eagle, and painted on the deck of major surface ships as an air recognition symbol, so that German bomber pilots wouldn't attack their own ships.
When he was Commander in Chief, Raeder did everything he could to protect Jewish personnel from the party. There is a story, possibly apocryphal, possibly not, that there were still some Jewish officers aboard Bismarck when she attempted her breakout into the Atlantic. Officially, all Jewish personnel had been purged by then. Unofficially, there are stories that the Navy may have aryanised a lot of records, or just ignored the orders, so that they could retain some of their better officers. Dönitz was closer to Hitler than Raeder, but there has always been a dispute as to whether he was really a Nazi himself, or if he had simply figured out that he'd be more successful at keeping the Party from meddling in Navy business by staying close enough to Hitler to exert a strong influence. If nothing else, he was a lot more honest about what was going on in the war than most senior officers, who usually just told Hitler what they thought he wanted to hear.
INTERVIEWER: Do you have any favorite authors? Anyone who's influenced you to write?
JTM: I've had several favorites over the years. I read a lot of Ian Fleming when I was in high school. And I was practically addicted to Richard S. Prather's Shell Scott series. Someone once described Scott as being "politically, slightly to the right of Hitler," but I never noticed that. I always thought he was pretty conservative on the old "Red Menace" issues, but actually damned liberal when it came to civil rights stuff. He probably would have been a Republican, back in the days before the party was hijacked by the special interests.
I also went through a period when I read a lot of fantasy fiction. Robert E. Howard and the like. For naval adventure writing, I'm still very fond of Douglas Reeman, along with Alexander Kent, who, of course, is also Reeman. I even carried on a fairly lengthy correspondence with him back in the late 1970s and early 1980s. And we certainly can't forget C.S. Forrester and his Hornblower novels. Today, of course, there's Tom Clancy. I don't write the sort of technothriller he's so good at, though. With Honour in Battle is more the old-fashioned naval adventure, with just a little 1940's high tech thrown in. But I've read all of his fiction, most of the books several times.
Of course, like just about anyone interested in submarines, I've also read both the fiction and non-fiction books by Edward L. Beach, such as Run Silent, Run Deep, and Around the World Submerged. He was a true gentleman, and quite willing to offer advice to an aspiring submarine novelist. Some of his suggestions made it into the updated version of With Honour in Battle.
INTERVIEWER: Where did the information on the technical stuff come from?
JTM: I read a lot. And if it was important to the plot, and theoretically possible, sometimes I just made it up. But most of what happens was possible with the submarine technology of the mid-1940s, even if it wasn't actually being done yet, and the majority was taken directly from published information on genuine vessels. The Germans did have torpedoes with active homing by late 1944, for example, and even wire-guided types, though I don't believe they were actually used in combat. One of the advantages of fiction is that you can re-write history and make use of weapons that were just that much too late in real life.
INTERVIEWER: If you've corresponded with some authors, does that mean you'll write back to people?
JTM: I make no guarantees, but if someone wants to email me here, they might get an answer. They might not, too. Like I said, no guarantees.
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| 18 July 2003. Taken in the after torpedo room of USS Cod (SS-224) in Cleveland, Ohio. |
INTERVIEWER: What are you working on these days?
JTM: The main project is Bacalao. Another submarine story, but this time aboard an American fleet boat in the Pacific theatre. I'm in the middle of the third draft now. Probably, with some final polishing, that will be the one that ends up on the shelves.
INTERVIEWER: Any particular problems?
JTM: Just the usual sort of thing. I thought it was about the boat's captain, but somewhere in the middle of the first draft one of the minor character, a Lieutenant named Miller, grabbed me by the shirt and pointed out that the book was really about him. Two drafts later, I have to agree with him. It's a much more interesting story from his viewpoint.
INTERVIEWER: So Miller is your favorite character?
JTM: Well, he's generally the viewpoint character, in any case. There are others who certainly qualify as equally, or possibly even more interesting. Andy Morley, Bacalao's original captain, for instance. Then there's Electrician's Mate 1st Class Kenneth Ohara, who is very good at his job and manages to win a Navy Distinguished Service Medal (at that time ranking just below the Medal of Honor, though later dropped to number three and the Navy Cross moved up to number two) on their first war patrol when all hell breaks lose in the maneuvering room, but for an American submariner suffers from the distinct problem of having picked the wrong ancestors and consequently looking way too much like the guy's they're fighting.
INTERVIEWER: Did you manage to catch all of the goofs in this one?
JTM: I hope so. There is, admittedly, one minor anachronism, but that one was intentional, so call it dramatic license. I've got Bacalao at Pearl Harbor during the attack, and the first Gato class sub didn't actually get there until a couple of months later. But since this is an American sub, and there are several examples still around, it's a lot easier to check things than it would be if I made her a Tambor. I have some friends who served in these boats, too, and I'm running it all past them. They've caught some things here and there.
INTERVIEWER: Such as?
JTM: Technical things, mostly. Details on the deck guns, for instance.
INTERVIEWER: Anything else in the works?
JTM: There's also a short story collection, tentatively titled Eighteen Hours, which includes some sub stories, but also wanders off into other areas. And, as I own Riverdale Electronic Books, I spend a fair amount of time on editing and preparing other people's books for publication. We recently published U-859, by Arthur Baudzus, who was aboard the real boat and is one of the few—possibly the only—living men to have ever made a free ascent (no escape gear) from a sunken submarine. Early next year we'll be publishing Walter Willaert's The Mecca Connection, which is an absolutely fascinating novel with a plot that makes Robert Ludlum sound about as complicated as Dr. Seuss.
There's FleetSubmarine.com, too. That takes up a certain amount of time. It's not easy compiling histories of several hundred submarines—particularly when you want to go beyond the sometimes rather inadequate information that the government published in the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships.
INTERVIEWER: Well, I want to thank you for the interview. I hope your books all become huge hits.
JTM: I certainly hope so. You do have a pretty strong interest in that, after all.
INTERVIEWER: Does that mean you're admitting that I'm you, and you've been interviewing yourself?
JTM: I wasn't going to, but since you just did it...
Original content © 2001, 2003, J.T. McDaniel. All rights reserved.
